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NY-26: Corwin Leads by Just Five

by: DavidNYC

Fri Apr 29, 2011 at 11:46 AM EDT


Siena (PDF) (4/26-27, likely voters, no trendlines):

Kathy Hochul (D): 31
Jane Corwin (R): 36
Jack Davis (T): 23
Ian Murphy (G): 1
Undecided: 9
(MoE: ±4.5%)

I have to say, I wasn't expecting numbers like this, not at all, for a whole host of reasons. Republicans looked very unified in tapping Assemblywoman Jane Corwin - she was acceptable to the conservatives and even quite a few teabaggers, despite her establishment pedigree, and she also was personally very rich. Meanwhile, Democrats dithered, waiting weeks to pick a candidate after Corwin was already in the race. Furthermore, the one bona fide teabagger who hoped to run, Iraq war vet David Bellavia, screwed up his paperwork and failed to get on the ballot. And on top of that, Ian Murphy, the writer who achieved his 15 minutes with his fake David Koch prank call to Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, decided to hop into the race on the newly-reconstituted Green Party line. And oh, yeah, the 26th is the most Republican district in the state. The GOP seemed poised to avoid the mistakes they'd made in the NY-20 and NY-23 specials. It didn't seem promising for Dems.

But the one wild card has proven much wilder than I had anticipated: zillionaire nutball Crazy Jack Davis is having a much bigger impact than his shot-to-hell reputation would seem to warrant. Prior to this year, Davis had run for this seat in three successive cycles from 2004 to 2008, losing twice in the general and once in the primary - all three times as a Democrat. But he cut a strange figure for a Dem, sound like the most unhinged of right-wingers on his favorite issue, immigration. He also has a well-deserved reputation as a lunatic who is impossible to work with, abuses people, and can't hold on to staff. Thus he earned the epithet "Crazy," and he's been Crazy Jack Davis for about as long as I've known of him.

He looked to cement that reputation a few months ago, when he decided he'd get into the mix for this seat yet again, following Rep. Chris Lee's resignation. But this time, Davis wanted to score the Republican and Conservative Party lines - well, I told you he was crazy. He was quickly rebuffed by both, but this is where that unusual "T" line comes in next to his name in the blockquote at top. Thanks to his millions (he's always spent his own money freely), Davis was easily able to get on the ballot as an independent, and cannily chose to name his ballot line the "Tea Party." This caused an entertaining split among teabaggers in western New York, with the "real" teabaggers insisting that Davis was just trying to bogart their good name (yeah, I know, LOL)... but there was nothing they could do about it.

And thanks to his free-spending ways, it seems like Davis is screwing up what should have been a sure thing for Corwin. At the same time, he's also hurting Hochul. Looking at the cross-tabs (PDF), Davis gets 24% of the Republican vote, 20% of the Democratic vote, and 27% of the independent vote. Rare to see a candidate with such cross-spectrum appeal! I figured Dems would be disgusted with him, and Republicans would want nothing to do with him given his Democratic past. But evidently that's not the case, at least for everyone.

It'll be very interesting to see how the major-party candidates react. Surely the campaign committees are doing their own polling, but even if it doesn't match Siena's, these numbers will have to make operatives second-guess themselves a bit. Does Corwin start attacking Davis? Or does she try to pound Hochul? Or both? As I see it, though, the strategy for Hochul is a lot simpler. As Siena notes:

They strongly oppose cutting Medicare and Social Security benefits to help close the deficit (59-38 percent); however, they strongly support increasing personal income tax rates for the wealthiest Americans (62-35 percent)....

Hochul's most recent ad attacked Corwin on Medicare - Corwin said she'd have voted for the Ryan Republican budget - and I said the other day that she should make this her unrelenting theme for the final weeks of the campaign. The poll numbers bear that out. (I'm sure that Hochul won't call for tax increases on the rich, despite that being super-popular in a red district, but that wouldn't be a bad idea, either.)

We'll also have to see if the DCCC and NRCC decide to get involved here. If Hochul can use Medicare the way ex-Rep. Scott Murphy beat Jim Tedisco over the head with the stimulus in the spring of 2009, this could be a real race - coupled, of course, with the Jack Davis factor. All of a sudden, things just got exciting in western New York.

UPDATE: I meant to include this new bit of news in the post, and was reminded in comments. Davis just said he would caucus with the GOP if he wins. That can only help him with would-be Republican voters and hurt him among Democrats. In other words, good news for us!

DavidNYC :: NY-26: Corwin Leads by Just Five
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From the #s, it looks like Davis is pulling pretty evenly
He did run as a Dem the last 3 elections, so hopefully the D vote will consolidate around Hochul soon. I would say that the closeness is more part of the district's relative swinginess (IIRC, Davis got 48% of the vote as a D in 2006, for instance), less Republican interest coupled with greater D interest, and the Ryan budget.

Also, 22.6% of the Democratic vote
is what Davis got in the 2008 primary (3-way between him, Alice Kryzan, and Jon Powers.) So it doesn't look like he's lost much D support yet... hopefully that will change.

[ Parent ]
"Pretty evenly" in percentage means pulling more Republicans
because there are more Republicans.  But he's actually doing 20% better with Republicans than Dems (though the MoE is pretty high here), so he is drawing significantly more Republicans in raw numbers than Dems.

Love that Tea Party line!


[ Parent ]
Doing the math
Siena's poll sample is roughly 32% D, 41% R. 27% I

If Davis left the race, and all his supporters allocated themselves to the other candidates, R/Ds going 90/10 for their party's candidate and Indys splitting 50/50, then the result would be

Corwin -49.1%
Hochul - 41.4%

So Davis turns an 8-point lead into a 5-point one. Nice, but +3D isn't that dramatic of a difference


[ Parent ]
No math needed
since Siena releases crosstabs (you were mostly right; it's 32 D, 41 R, and 24 I)

Also, if Hochul does win, it will probably be by less than 3 points. So I disagree with your last sentence.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Funny, I don't see that on the crosstabs. And your numbers don't add to 100%
True that a Hochul victory probably won't be very dramatic. My point was more that Davis hasn't had a huge effect on the race yet, margin-wise. I'm anticipating that his result will become more dramatic as Democrats flock back to Hochul (his numbers with them now are about what he got in the '08 primary, and he announced he'll be caucusing with the Republicans, so they'll probably be going down considerably.)

If 3/4 of Davis's Dem supporters abandon him and split 90/10 pro-Hochul, then it becomes a 1-point race.
Hochul - 35%
Corwin - 36%
Davis - 18%


[ Parent ]
They're not "my" numbers, they're Siena's
they're on the very last page of the crosstabs.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
If you scroll down in the crosstabs
you can see that this district would pretty clearly prefer a Republican to a Democrat. But Davis is splitting the right. I would be surprised to see the NRCC go after him.

This district won't exist in 2012
I'm not keen on the DCCC dropping much coin here. Should Hochul miraculously pull off a razor-thin victory, she'd be facing off with an entrenched incumbent - probably a Dem - in new territory just next year.

99 times out of 100 it is well worth the investment to get a Dem into a Likely GOP seat, thanks to the power of incumbency and presidential election turnout, but this would seem to be the exception.


But, there is the power of messaging here...
A Dem win could send some shockwaves through the political world that the Ryan budget is poison.  Also, nvesting some here and winning could lead to more fundraising down the road due to increased optimism nationally for our side.

[ Parent ]
I completely agree.
The one thing I am afraid of, politically, is that the Republicans successfully back track from the Ryan plan after seeing it sink a candidate. It's far enough away from election day that the damage could be minimized if they want it to be, I think, and I'd prefer that that they choke on that.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Ordinarily I'd agree with you
But I think LordMike has it exactly right. A win here would empower Dems to truly blister the GOP on Medicare. It's a message that would work in any winnable district. And if we lose, well, we weren't supposed to win anyway.

[ Parent ]
I've heard rumors that the DCCC has been already in...
...but, I can't confirm them.  Also rumors that the GOP is in as well.  No word on third parties.

[ Parent ]
Well
There's nothing in the IE reports:

http://www.fec.gov/finance/dis...


[ Parent ]
This is the only game in town
It's the opportunity to pick up a seat that would normally be off the table in a november election and as you mentioned, it's not a race you are supposed to win. The DCCC should get in because they can use it as a fundraising tool and a victory would give them some serious momentum for the NV-2 special election.
Heading into 2012 only needing to pick up 23 seats is preferable to needing to pick up 25.

http://electionreference.com

Male, 28, R (don't worry I'm not here to fight), WA-2


[ Parent ]
And it's so early on in the cycle
There is plenty of time to worry about making up those costs.  (Not that Suze Orman would say that.)

[ Parent ]
It's nice to have a reason to raise money
National Committees are always looking to raise money but being able to tell donors that they need to raise $500,000 or $250,000 to fund a special election gives everyone a reason to contribute.

The only reason to say out of the race is if you feel it is a lost cause. This is not a lost cause.

http://electionreference.com

Male, 28, R (don't worry I'm not here to fight), WA-2


[ Parent ]
What's the rate of return?
Nobody is talking about the DSCC dropping $20 millon on this district.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
DCCC
There is no evidence of them on the ground as yet.

[ Parent ]
I've drawn numerous maps
of NY and I seriously don't see this district not existing, so I don't see how he can say that with so much certainty. It's an utter mess, a nightmare nearly, to try to cut a Western Tier seat because it's so close to retaining 4 seats as it is. Mainly Reed's district merely has to extend outward, but that's about it. Two GOP vote sinks, two heavily Democratic districts based on Rochester and Buffalo. That's how I see the compromise map working out, (thus protecting Higgins' marginal seat).  

[ Parent ]
Except you may be able to
throw Hochul in with Reed or Buerkle and take one of them out.

I agree that it's probably a wash, but the optics of it would be great.  


[ Parent ]
Neither one of those
would be very easy. Particulaly Reed, the core of whose district is so Republican.

[ Parent ]
No
but Tim Holden wasn't supposed to beat George Gekas in Pennsylvania in 2002, but he did  

[ Parent ]
To the contrary...
...having an extra Democrat gives us extra leverage in negotiating districts.  Particularly if that Democrat is the one we are "sacricing" since the split legislature means the two seat loss will be balanced between the parties.

My dream would be we give up Hochul and in order to achieve geographical "balance" the Republican victim is Grimm and NY-13 veers off into Manhattan instead of Brooklyn.  With Diane Savino primarying out Jerry Nadler.  Yeah. I know.  It's a pipe dream. :/

NY-13, Democrat. Blog @ http://infinitefunction.wordpr...


[ Parent ]
This district will exist in 2012
There will be room for a third district between Buffalo and Rochester, in roughly the same physical and political cast in almost any redistricting scenario Ive seen done with Daves project.  

It might be possible to construct three lean D  districts with some creative lines out of the same area, but the present incumbents of CD27 and CD28 might not be happy with the result.

Joe Cooper


[ Parent ]
NY26Win
http://i781.photobucket.com/al...

Using Daves 2008 election data

                            Obama  McCain
NY26[old]NY26[new]           56.1   42.4
NY27[old]NY27[new]           55.4   44.0      
NY28[old]NY25[new]           56.5   42.4
NY29&NY24[old]NY24[new]      44.2   54.3

Making 3 Lean Democratic districts and one safe Republican

All three would be vulnerable in a R year.



Joe Cooper


[ Parent ]
WNY
I see you're banking on a Corwin victory, and then you give her LaFalce's district from the 1990s.  Clever.  She can easily move from Clarence to Amherst and keep most of the voters.

[ Parent ]
You can make it work...
I played around and created three 56 or 57 obama districts in Western New York.  Though this was using 2000 numbers.  What you do is have Hochul split (or rather take most of) Buffalo.  Then you keep the "earmuffs" and have Higgins district sink into Rochester.  And then Slaughters district moves south and east taking in Democratic areas.  And of course Reed ending up with the ugly mess that's left.  Wish I had saved that map.

So if the legislature goes incumbent protection Hotchul can certainly be saved.  The question then is whether we want to at the expense of another Democrat since someone is going to have to walk the ledge.

NY-13, Democrat. Blog @ http://infinitefunction.wordpr...


[ Parent ]
Why
does a Democrat have to walk the ledge in NNY?  If Ds lose CD05 in NYCity, its the Rs turn to lose an R seat in Northern NY.  I think the most likely would be the present CD25, Syracuse, strengthening it some.  It would make a natural Democratic seat, combined with Tompkins county it would be safe.  That would be a loss to the Rs.  The problem would then be CD 23, taking the safest portions of the Present CD20 and CD23.  The reduced number of total seats would be the loss of present CD05 and the combination of CD24 and CD29

Joe Cooper

[ Parent ]
I'd do that too.
I'd dump a Republican in Upstate and a Democrat is downstate.  In fact, you can make it a gain for the Democrats if you put Syracuse and Ithaca together (Buerkle has a seat, but probably not for long).  I think that Hinchey could carry any district with Middletown, Kingston, Peekskill, and Poughkeepsie.  Then merge Hayworth with Gibson, as both are freshmen, and another upstate Republican goes.

[ Parent ]
Positive signs for us
Hochul is actually even with Corwin favorables-wise, 44-31. Voters narrowly support "Increasing federal revenues by increasing tax rates for American corporations" 48-47, and support "Increasing federal revenues by raising taxes on those Americans making more than $250,000 a year" 62-35.

It's hard to tell who Davis is hurting more. His supporters approve of Hochul 36-35 and disapprove of Corwin 24-39.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


Davis is taking the vote...
...from folks who are mad at the GOP, but still can't bear the thought of pulling the lever for a Democrat.

[ Parent ]
Davis won't draw as well from Dems in the election
This has Hochul almost within the margin of error even as David pulls pretty evenly from both Hochul and Corwin. But this morning's Buffalo News has an article in which Davis declares he would caucus with the GOP. That's going to make his appeal among protectionist Democrats decrease. It will probably increase his appeal among Republicans.

Ah, I meant to note that!
The caucusing bit. Good point. I will update.

[ Parent ]
Just one question:
How is Hochul's name pronounced?  Hoe-cool?  Hoe-chool?  Hockle?  Hawchool?  Hockchool?

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

Hoe-cool


Some Dude, 19, Democrat, NH-02 (residence), MA-08 (college)

[ Parent ]
Hoakle
I think that's how I heard it on one of her ads.

41, Ind, CA-05

[ Parent ]
Click the link
On the ad I mentioned in the post. Ads are always the easiest way to learn candidate name pronunciations.

[ Parent ]
I just noticed something
Hochul lives in Hamburg, which I believe is in the 27th. That makes her tie in Erie County even more impressive, since Corwin actually lives in the 26th part of Erie.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


Huh
I didn't realize that. Hamburg isn't on the border, either. It's well within the 27th.

[ Parent ]
Actually
As County Clerk Hochul represents more Erie County NY 26 voters than Corwin does in her Assembly district.  Hochul also won re-election in November with 80% of the vote, and Erie County is Paladino's home county.

[ Parent ]
Didn't know about the 80% victory.
that's interesting. Wouldn't be surprising if Hochul wins Erie. The only problem is making sure she doesn't get blown out in the rest of the district.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Believe me, we're working on it!
I've been helping out as a volunteer, and the canvasses in the rural counties are bigger and more energetic than anyone expected. And we're getting a very good reception, mostly because of Medicare. The population in this area is aging rapidly, and everyone knows we'd be screwed without Medicare.

[ Parent ]
Thanks a lot
for all your time and effort!

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Thanks for your work!


22, male, VA-10

[ Parent ]
Thank you for doing what you're doing
You matter, and I hope you and all your fellow Democrats up there get the win you deserve.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10

[ Parent ]
Thank you for your time and effort!
And one more thing:



party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01


[ Parent ]
The declaration by Davis of caucusing with the GOP
May hurt rather than help.  I think a lot of people want someone who is not a republican, but just have a cultural aversion to voting for a Democrat.  Davis was a good choice in that regard.  How that affects the race is probably uncertain at this juncture.

Eh
Hochul could use this to get those ~20% of Democrats who say they'd support Davis right now to come back into the fold.

24, male, Democrat, VA-06 (currently in Italy), went to school in VA-05

[ Parent ]
Yeah, no-brainer, LordMike didn't think it through......
No one is going to flip from Davis to an actual Republican because Davis promises to caucus with the Republicans!

Davis' decision hurts only Corwin, and helps Hochul.

In fact, if Hochul pulls off the upset, she might have to thank Davis' caucusing statement for getting her over the hump.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
Has Davis come out in support of the Ryan Budget?
That would be an interesting dynamic if he didn't - A Republican for the Ryan Budget, a Republican against the Ryan Budget and a Dem against the Ryan Budget.  

And if he did it makes it easier for Hochul to attack them both in one ad.  


Stu Rothenberg confirms tight race from GOP insiders.....
He moves it from R favored to R lean, and here's his story:  http://rothenbergpoliticalrepo...

Key graf:

GOP insiders acknowledge (and a new public poll shows) that state Assemblywoman Jane Corwin (R) has a small lead over Erie County Clerk Kathy Hochul (D)...

Another key graf:

Corwin and her allies are expected to attack Davis in the near future to remind voters that he was a Democrat, thereby helping them bring some GOP voters "back home."

Hold on to your hats!

In hindsight, I remember having read that Crazy Jack had put over a million bucks into this special, and that money proves I shouldn't have been as surprised as I was when I saw this Siena poll today.

I will say I don't think there's any moral victory for us if Hochul loses narrowly.  The 3-way makes it hard to extrapolate anything of future use from a narrow defeat, and beyond that a loss is a loss.  If Hochul lost a 2-way by a hair, we could deduce the Medicare hit works in a real campaign, and we're in decent shape with it in blue and purple GOP-held seats even if we didn't get over the hump in this one.  But in this 3-way, only an actual victory is a moral victory.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


So we gotta win this one...
Which certainly seems like a possibility!  

[ Parent ]
Not necessarily
Seems like a perfect race for message testing.

What works and doesn't, based on internals (presumably run by the DCCC), can be a template for what D candidates do across the country in '12. It should apply at least to other NY districts -- and I think the Midwest (I think of Buffalo and environs, demographically, as more Midwest than NY state).


[ Parent ]
Yep
this is the perfect district to see how much Ryan's budget can be used to win over older, working class suburbs and also even older rural communities.

I'd say that even if we lose this race but romp in Erie County, that our messaging worked and that we'd have the opportunity to knock off Renacci, keep Donnelly's seat, knock off McKinley, knock off Fitzgerald, have a chance at LaTourette etc.  


[ Parent ]
Erie County and...
Carry Lockport and Monroe County (Brockport), then I'd agree with you there.

[ Parent ]
Lockport's represented by Corwin but not Hochul
if we lose there can we blame it on that? :P

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Let's take a look at who ran against her.
NO ONE!  So, a good Dem. candidate ought to carry Lockport.  It is an old industrial city.  Hochul also ought to carry Brockport.

(Niagara County does not break data up by precinct and assumes I know who is in what party.  Click on "Official 2010 General Election Results" and then "Member Of Assembly 142nd District")


[ Parent ]
After you said "three way"
my brain kept trying to turn the rest of your post into a sexual innuendo.

[ Parent ]
Go Davis!!! nt


50, straight white male, Democrat(Dan Boren/Gene Taylor 2012!), AL-7(born in AL-5)

When is election day?


May 24 nt


50, straight white male, Democrat(Dan Boren/Gene Taylor 2012!), AL-7(born in AL-5)

[ Parent ]
We need a good defense of our own base
Just in case Davis turns around and tries to cannibalize Dem voters.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01

Him saying he'll caucus with the GOP...
Should do it.

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native

[ Parent ]
Not so sure about that
Three things to take into account:

1. Davis isn't 100% clear in that, he says he's "closer to the Republicans", but also says that he "hadn't thought about it". Not definitive, and leaving himself some wiggle-room

2. Even if he was unequivocal, while political junkies on here care about it, I'm not sure how much "caucusing intention" means to the average voter in these third-party scenarios. And arguably, there's history to back that. Lieberman promised in early October 2006 that he would still caucus with the Democrats, but that didn't stop the majority of CT Republicans from rallying behind him. Murkowski made clear she would remain a full-fledged Republican, but alot of AK Dems voted for her on the grounds that she would be more independent than Miller. Assuming they even understand or care about a procedure like caucusing, votersa re still getting someone more independent than a full-fledged partisan.

3. Jack Davis' Democrats are likely going to be conservative Dems anyway. Granted, Hochul is moderate and has been endorsed by the Conservative Party in the past, and could emphasise that to keep her Dem base together, but Davis' populism will still give him pull. And that to points 1 and 2, and I doubt "caucusing" alone will do it


[ Parent ]
I hope you're wrong...
But I concede it is a solid argument you make.

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native

[ Parent ]
I hope I'm wrong too
It's still good news insofar as it couldn't conceivably hurt Hochul, and it logically could help. It'll give Hochul (and, more importantly, Davis) a counter when Corwin tries to attack Davis as a Dem based on his 2004/2006 runs, and it might prevent Davis from bleeding any additional Dems from Hochul. But whether it gets Hochul the Dems who are already with Davis or gives Davis additional Republicans is up in the air.

[ Parent ]
Your point #1 is a non-issue, "Davis is really a Republican" is all that penetrates......
Even here on SSP Davis' comments are reported as "Davis will caucus with GOP."  And this is a far more sophisticated audience that average voters.

So the nuances you cite aren't going to penetrate average voters who see only the "headline" description of what Davis said.

Voters absorb it as "Davis is a Republican" and that helps Hochul and hurts Corwin.  If Hochul can pull Davis' Dem support away from him but Davis still hangs on to the GOPers and indies he's got, then that makes the race a tossup between Hochul and Corwin.  And "Davis will caucus with GOP" is all it really takes for Hochul to win over the Dems, as long as she can make sure ordinary voters are made aware of that tidbit.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
I feel like Corwin can get a lot of Davis R supporters, though
by driving home the fact that he ran as a Democrat so many times.

[ Parent ]
The problem with that is she's probably already maxed out on those people......
Yes Davis ran as a Democrat before, but everyone already knows that.  After all, he ran the last 3 cycles in a row!  And he was our nominee and came within a hair of winning the first 2 of those!  When you consider this is a low-turnout special this time, probably almost everyone who votes already remembers Davis ran repeatedly as a Democrat.

So I don't know how much "reminding" voters that Davis ran as a Dem helps at this point...I bet little or none.

Davis clearly is gunning for right-of-center voters, including by officially calling himself the "Tea Party" nominee on the ballot.  I think if Hochul tries to tag him a 2nd Republican and Corwin tries to tag him a 2nd Democrat, Hochul is going to win that battle.

None of this means Hochul wins.  It's entirely possible Corwin wins this thing with a 40% plurality, by 5-6 points.  After all, she's up 5 now!

But I agree with DavidNYC that Hochul needs to just keep hammering the Medicare issue and whatever else helps us in that district, and that plus Davis add up to a plausible path to victory.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
I don't think Hochul will win...
But it's very exciting to see the race this close, Crazy Jack Davis or not.

20, center-left independent, Auckland Central resident, MD-05 voter, OR-01 native

Dems will have represented every NY district except NY-03
at some point since 2008.

26, male, Dem, NJ-12

That's IF we win, which is probably still well under a 50% chance.
but still pretty impressive.

[ Parent ]
Redistricting implications
I see four possible scenarios (assuming each side is losing one):

Scenario A-Corwin wins comfortably: Things proceed as expected. Buerkle is thrown under the bus (or at best, drawn into Hanna's seat), and Democrats lose one seat downstate.

Scenario B-Corwin barely hangs on: Sensing weakness, Skelos decides to axe Corwin instead, combining her with Reed or Buerkle.

Scenario C-Hochul wins: Probably the toughest to figure. They could eliminate her by putting her in with Reed, and then possibly cut Nan Hayworth downstate by pushing Lowey and Engel further up the Hudson. Alternatively, they could keep her and make three low D+ districts in WNY, and eliminate Buerkle and an NYC Dem. Finally, they could do a fair fight Hochul vs. Reed, and another fair fight like King vs. McCarthy downstate.

Scenario D-Davis wins: If Dems agree to consider him a Republican, this is the easiest solution. He gets cut and so does a downstate Dem.

20, CD MA-03/NH-01/MA-08


there is no way
to eliminate the seat. If you draw corning in with the rest of Western NY (while giving a compact buffalo and rochester districts to higgins and slaughter respectively, that is about 1 million people. There is no other way to draw that district as well, because if its drops people in the SW then no one else can pick it up, and other areas would cause corning and the area in between roch/buf to connect. and burkle is too far away, and you would have to earmuff around slaughter in roch.

again, there are simply too many people outside of buffalo and Rochester to eliminate that district.  


[ Parent ]
either way
Cuomo said multiple times he would veto any gerrymandered map

[ Parent ]
here
Photobucket

I dont even know if this eliminates half a district, it kind of just forces Corwin into a primary with Reed but isnt really eliminating much turf. That might be about half a district eliminated. That moves Buerkle through a tendril to NW NY, then you would have to somehow get owens to those areas n of syracuse and Hanna has to pick up a lot of Reeds former areas to the E of Corning. Would be a pretty extreme gerrymander


[ Parent ]
That purple monstrosity
This will not pass, period.  What could pass, though, is that purple district taking northern Ontario County, all of Wayne, and then going through Cayuga County to Onondaga Hill in Onondaga County.  That would suck up a lot of the Republican votes as well.  Hanna then swings a little westward into Yates and the rest of Ontario.  Syracuse then could be put into a St. Lawrence Seaway/Northern Tier district.

Anyway, I will admit conservative leanings, but anything that keeps someone from Clarence/Amherst out of Congress is fine with me.


[ Parent ]
Oy that is ugly
Try this:

Photobucket

It's relatively clean, definitely not uglier than it is now. It forces Buerkle and Corwin to primary each other, and the area is about even. The district is probably R+5, and my map also shores up Hanna, Owens, and Gibson.  

NY-14, DC-AL (college) Distraught Mets fan


[ Parent ]
Buerkle vs. Corwin?
This is actually Buerkle vs. Hanna.  Onondaga Hill is south of Syracuse.

I can see most of the WNY districts happening.  Your grey district is reminiscent of Paxon/Reynolds from the 1990s.


[ Parent ]
I don't think there's anything currently quite as bad as the puke green district
but w/e

[ Parent ]
Are you referring to Hinchey's?
cause it's not that great-looking either now. Unlike the map posted above, the current map shoots a finger into Ithaca instead of grabbing it normally.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Oh wow, that is pretty ugly
nevermind.

[ Parent ]
Great. Now go start working for the campaign.
I just did.

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)

How?


21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Oh, I know statistics, and I know my way around Excel.
That's a quite good skill set to have.

'Working' is maybe the wrong term, I didn't mean working as in a full-time paid job, but I've stopped doing volunteer work a long time ago. 'Unpaid staffer' would be the term, I guess.  

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)


[ Parent ]
I mean, how can you get involved
if you have a day job and don't live in the district? (I guess you could give money, although that's a problem for some of us too)

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
I guess that depends on your skills.
I have a day job (well, being a math student) and I live in Germany. I think that many people at SSP can do things that are helpful to campaigns. I can work on micro-targeting, I can streamline data management and data processing, I can do Nate-Silver magic.

Other people can do the same or different stuff that helps.  

18- Hamburg, Germany (non-US-citizen)


[ Parent ]
You can volunteer to do remote phone banking
Contact the campaign through kathyhochul.com. They can set you up with calls.

[ Parent ]
That is totally awesome
Especially since I'm going to have a lot of free time starting Tuesday.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
That's hilarious
can't wait for Corwin to Corlose. :D

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
hillarious!
WILLIAMSVILLE - Jane Corwin, successful daughter of rich people and candidate for New York's 26th Congressional District, today outlined a comprehensive pandering strategy to say she'll decrease gas prices because that's what our polling research said people want to hear. Corwin discussed her pandering agenda to a crowd of local idiots.


26, male, Dem, NJ-12

[ Parent ]
wut
Well, that seems more like a base-turnout thing than a thing to convince any fence-sitters.

That said, I hope that our allies don't try to use this for that second purpose.

party: Democratic, ideology: moderate, district: CT-01


[ Parent ]
I'd be surprised if anyone
actually affiliated with Hochul's campaign produced that.

23, liberal democrat, SSP Gay Caucus Majority Whip, IN-02 (home), IN-03 (birth), SC-03 (early childhood), IN-09 (college);   DKos: HoosierD42

[ Parent ]
Thoroughly charming


Independent Socialist & Chair of SSP Cranky Indianian Hoosier Caucus, IN-09

[ Parent ]
I never thought this was as safe
As some proclaimed. Not that I actually expected to win and still don't. But if nothing else I think it is worth making a decent investment here if for nothing more than message testing.

What made you less skeptical than so many of us?
For my part, it looked like a sure loser to me for a lot of good reasons.  It's a GOP district anyway; we failed to pick it up in 2006 or 2008; the GOP got their candidate early and we got ours very late; the GOP's candidate has a little more stature than ours; and the GOP candidate has the Independence and Conservative lines on the ballot.  And there was no reason to think early on Davis would be taken seriously by voters after his previous antics, and given his current continuing crazy antics.

That's a helluva lot to overcome.

But yeah you're relative optimism, whatever drove it, was right.

A win here would be nice!

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
I can't speak for conspiracy
But there was one reason why I though there was a possibility Davis might at least make a dent: he's dropped a million bucks on the race. That often does at least SOMETHING.

[ Parent ]
Yeah, I remember that, and I admit was too quick to dismiss it at the time......
It was eye-opening to me for a moment, and yet I didn't want to take him seriously because he seemed just a joke, and the "smell of defeat" in his case after 3 straight failed cycles just reeked of the worst odors from the industrial part of any city.

But there obviously are people in the district who just like the guy.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
Some people were ranking it as safe
I thought it was premature to go quite that far in a R+6 seat though I hoped the party would at least try. As I said, I still thought Corwin would win and still do.

http://www.swingstateproject.c...


[ Parent ]
Agreed...
I mean, I never got my hopes up for this, and I try not to talk up winning too much because it just creates false hope. But at the same time, even with seemingly absurd things like Obama flipping Texas, I never say never. Scott Brown, as douchey as he is, should have taught us all a lesson about speaking in absolutes. And he was the rule, not the exception; other examples like Christine O'Donnell and Bill Owens just prove it.

For that matter, even after the 2010 wave, we still hold several districts just as red or redder than this one (although most are admittedly more ancestrally Democratic).

AR-04 (Mike Ross): R+7
KY-06 (Ben Chandler): R+9
NC-11 (Heath Shuler): R+6
OK-02 (Dan Boren): R+14
PA-04 (Jason Altmire): R+6
PA-17 (Tim Holden): R+6
UT-02 (Jim Matheson): R+15
WV-03 (Nick Rahall): R+6

And if you add seats we held until 2010, the list becomes longer.

AL-02 (Bobby Bright): R+16
AL-05 (Parker Griffith): R+12
AZ-01 (Ann Kirkpatrick): R+6
AR-01 (Marion Berry): R+8
CO-04 (Betsy Markey): R+6
FL-02 (Allen Boyd): R+6
GA-08 (Jim Marshall): R+10
ID-01 (Walt Minnick): R+18
IN-08 (Brad Ellsworth): R+8
IN-09 (Baron Hill): R+6
LA-03 (Charlie Melancoln): R+12
MD-01 (Frank Kratovil): R+13
MS-01 (Travis Childers): R+14
MS-04 (Gene Taylor): R+20
MO-04 (Ike Skelton): R+14
NM-02 (Harry Teague): R+6
ND-AL (Earl Pomeroy): R+10
OH-18 (Zack Space): R+7
PA-10 (Chris Carney): R+8
SC-05 (John Spratt): R+7
SD-AL (Stephanie Herseth-Sandlin): R+9
TN-04 (Lincoln Davis): R+13
TN-06 (Bart Gordon): R+13
TN-08 (John Tanner): R+6
TX-17 (Chet Edwards): R+20
VA-09 (Rick Boucher): R+11
WV-01 (Alan Mollohan): R+9

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
You will have
a better idea of why it's not so absurd on Thursday, or maybe Friday.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
?


21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Message testing.
Perhaps this is easier for the pros than it is for me, but I wonder if it's harder to figure out how the message test since there's a third-party candidate that could make a big impact. If Hochul wins, it'll be pretty clear why, and that's even more true if she wins by a solid margin. But otherwise, it won't be so clear, at least not to me.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
a lot of it is going to be spin
if she wins, it's a victory for the Dem position on Medicare. If she loses, it's a loss for the Dems (at least this is what I see Politico peddling, even though a Democrat losing in a R+6 district is not exactly earth-shattering).

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Politico is being misleading
and pushing a possible incorrect narrative? That can't be.


"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
I know, it's a radical theory.
Bear with me here.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
I think
the size of the loss, if one occurs, is key.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
No.
Whoever wins the race even if it's by one vote, means that the electorate has totally embraced all aspects of that candidate's ideology and rejected all aspects of their opponent's. Furthermore, the losing party is doomed (DOOMED) ton 1 million years of failure.

This is why recounts are evil, because they prevent sweeping election night narratives.


[ Parent ]
Comment of the Day


23, liberal democrat, SSP Gay Caucus Majority Whip, IN-02 (home), IN-03 (birth), SC-03 (early childhood), IN-09 (college);   DKos: HoosierD42

[ Parent ]
Yeah
Case in point - Ron Johnson spouting similar nonsense over the Prosser race.

[ Parent ]
Ron Johnson
was probably just relieved because all of this supposed death threats towards Wisconsin state senators might stop now that Prosser won./snark

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
The spin is not revevant to the message testing
The message test is based on a before/after poll -- like a controlled scientific experiment.

aka, there's an election coming

Today, certain segments of the electorate believe in X, by margin Y.

Message is delivered via air, poster, door hanger, etc.

After the message is delivered, certain segments of the electorate believe in X or Z, by margin A.

The change in belief/margin is a measure of the effectiveness of the message.


[ Parent ]

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