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SSP Daily Digest: 1/26

by: Crisitunity

Wed Jan 26, 2011 at 2:38 PM EST


MO-Sen: Most likely you already saw this story yesterday, but the big story in the Missouri Senate race is that Politico's Dave Catanese seems to be the recipient of various leaks that ex-Sen. Jim Talent will announce soon that he isn't going to run for Senate. We won't start jumping up and down and honking our clown horn until we actually hear it from Talent, but this isn't a surprise, based on previous rumors out of the Show Me State and Talent's seeming decision to focus on hitching his wagon to Mitt Romney's star instead. Without a dominant establishment candidate in the field, it looks like even more GOPers are starting to sniff out the race: MO-08 Rep. Jo Ann Emerson is now on the record as at least "considering" a run. Emerson, who's had some mavericky moments in the House, would easily be the most moderate GOPer in the field if she ran (and may see a path there, with multiple tea partiers seeming poised to cannibalize each others' votes). Emerson's potential departure would create an open seat in the currently R+15 8th, an area that actually went for Bill Clinton but has fallen off the cliff for Dems in recent years, most recently with the fizzle of the touted Tommy Sowers campaign last year.

NJ-Sen: PPP, while "cleaning out their fridge" as they said, found some week-old GOP Senate primary numbers from their New Jersey sample. They find state Sen. and 2006 candidate Tom Kean Jr. in good shape, with support from both moderates (which is probably what he would qualify as) and conservatives; he leads Lou Dobbs 42-30 with Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno at 7, "someone else" at 6, and 15 undecided.

KY-Gov: Filing day came and went without any last-minute shenanigans in Kentucky. Steve Beshear will get a totally free ride in the Democratic primary (looks like that primary from the scrap metal dealer didn't materialize), and will face one of three GOP opponents: state Senate president David Williams, teabagging businessman Phil Moffett, or Jefferson Co. Clerk Bobbie Holsclaw. The general election field in the AG race is already set; Jack Conway and Todd P'Pool didn't draw any primary challengers. The most activity seems to be in the Ag Commissioner race (vacated by Richie Farmer, who's running for Lt. Gov.), with 5 Dems and 2 GOPers running.

MN-08: This probably isn't a surprise, but after his upset loss last year, 76-year-old Jim Oberstar has decided to opt for retirement rather than a rerun against new Rep. Chip Cravaack. Two other high-profile Dems, Duluth mayor Don Ness and state Sen. Tony Lourey have also recently said no. Two DFLers who are considering the race, though, are Duluth-based state Sen. Roger Reinert and Daniel Fanning, Al Franken's deputy state director.

Omaha mayor: Omaha mayor Jim Suttle narrowly survived a recall attempt in last night's special election. He won 51-49. Suttle vows to do a better job of communicating with voters in the election's wake, although it remains an open question whether he runs again in 2013.

Redistricting: Here's a new wrinkle in the fight over the Fair Districts initiatives in Florida: Rick Scott seems to be stalling implementation of the new standards (which would limit the state legislature's ability to gerrymander districts). The state "quietly withdrew" its request that the federal DOJ approve implementation of the initiatives, which jeopardizes whether they'll be in place in time for the actual business of redistricting. Florida, as a one-time part of the Deep South, is one of those states that requires DOJ preclearance for changes to its electoral regime under the Voting Rights Act.

Politico also has an interesting article today about the Congressional Black Caucus and redistricting, which will reshape many of their districts, seeing as how some of their members' districts have had the biggest population losses of any districts in the nation (OH-11, MI-13, MI-14, and MO-01 in particular). These districts seem like they can absorb some suburban votes without losing their lopsided Dem advantages, but they're probably more worried about members getting pitted against each other (as might happen with the two Detroit districts) or against another Dem (possible for Marcia Fudge and Lacy Clay). Other lingering questions are whether Sanford Bishop's GA-02 (the only CBC-held district that's legitimately swingy) gets shored up or made worse, and whether South Carolina can be compelled to eke out a second VRA seat.

Turnout models: I rarely get the chance to say this, but if you look at only one scatterplot today, it should be this one. It's a remarkably-clear slope showing how predictable presidential approval is across demographic groups, and more evidence that the swing in the 2010 election was uniform across groups in response to macro factors (i.e. the stupid economy) rather than a failure of microtargeting. And here are some further thoughts on the matter from Larry Sabato's new book, pointing out the really steep dropoffs in 2010 turnout for the groups I tend to label the "casual voters" (reliably Dem lower-information voters, mostly young and/or people of color, who turn out for presidential races but not the less compelling stuff in between), and how the 2010 model isn't anything like what the 2012 model will resemble.

Crisitunity :: SSP Daily Digest: 1/26
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On FL
Redistrictring doesn't start for months, so supposedly there's enough time for the state to "review" it before it gets granted preclearance.  Also, it would be massively stupid of them if they tried to prevent it from taking effect as they passed with over 60% of the vote.  Luckily, the Fair Districts group and the FL Dem Party are not going to take this lying down.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


MO-Sen
I think Emerson's Senate Race teaser is bluster to try to keep the legislature from packing her in with Carnahan in a new 3rd CD that would run from St. Louis County through Jefferson County and south all the way along the Mississippi River past Cape Girardeau. She would probably have the advantage over Carnahan, but she has never had a real race and maybe hopes this threat might keep her from having one.  

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


It's a strange way to do it then
Missouri has to lose a seat, so if people think she's running for the Senate, that makes it more likely that her seat would be eliminated.

26, white male, TX-24, liberal-leaning independent

[ Parent ]
unless
She's telling people that if they want her to stay out of the primary they had better give her the district she wants.

Other possibility is she actually means to run, at which point she's delusional and they should cut her out anyway.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
"'delusional"?
At this point the nomination is hers for the taking.

[ Parent ]
WHAT!?!
Hers for the taking? I wouldn't bet on her finishing higher than 3rd.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
It would almost be impossible not at least finish second
One Danforth/Bond candidate and 3+ teabaggers.  If multiple baggers run, she's in.  Hard to get an easier path than that.

[ Parent ]
that is too simplistic
Wagner and Steelman aren't really tea party people, but the are solid conservatives, there really isn't a statewide primary constituency for a moderate like Emerson. I'd put the likely result w/ the current list of potential candidates as;
Wagner
What's-his-name who lost to Carnahan
Steelman
Emerson

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
Ed Martin
Got any rumors for us today?

[ Parent ]
Nope
I was surprised there was nothing to that Kohl rumor, not that he has retired, but that the whole spin came from thin air. Sounds like one persons conjecture becomes someone else's gossip and then another person's "News".

"Spinning the Teapot" is the term for campaign consultants all talking to each other and creating "buzz" about their candidates prospects with no outside input whatsoever.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
Just for the record
The governor in Florida cannot veto a redistricting plan. Despite many people on liberal blogs saying that Sink was the savior against GOP-gerrymandering, they were wrong.

Of course, Sink wouldn't have stalled the implementation, but something tells me that Scott hasn't won.


The governor can veto the Congressional map but not the state legislative maps.


[ Parent ]
I'm really glad
... that the Omaha mayor survived the recall.  I really, really dislike the idea of recalling someone just because you don't like the job they are doing -- that's what the next election is for.

Just got my babka,
and it is GOOD! Thanks, SSP!

Which kind was it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
What bakery made and shipped it?
I might like to try the official Swing State Project babka provider someday...

[ Parent ]
The babka that I got
came from a kosher Ackerman place in Brooklyn.

My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)


[ Parent ]
Guess Sutton will have the leg-up
on Kucinich in their new district as Kucinich is suing the House cafeteria.  Why you may ask?  Because he found an olive was not pitted in his sandwich and it caused dental damage.  It sounds like a legit case to me, but anyone who doesn't read the whole story will think he's a dumb ass.

Ouch!
It truly is an unpleasant experience.  I once bit an olive pit.  Luckily, I was chewing slowly so it didn't damage anything, it just hurt.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Sutton
Sutton has my vote regardless, but I definitely sympathize with Kucinich - biting into an olive pit is no fun!

33, male, Dem, OH-13

[ Parent ]
One other CBC member in a legit swing district
Allen West (FL-22.) Odd that he joined and not Tim Scott; I would have thought it would have been the other way around.

20, CD MA-03/NH-01/MA-08

Detroit
There's still more than enough African American population in the Detroit area to support two districts -- especially if you're willing to cross county lines to attach the Southfield area to the 14th District. Consolidation of the two Detroit districts is at least another Census cycle away -- and probably more than that.

I don't know where exactly Clarke and Conyers live in Detroit. I suppose the Republicans could draw them into the same district just for fun, but that would be about the extent of their ability to really play with the Detroit districts. In terms of the just-for-fun factor, I'm more expecting Dingell's hometown of Dearborn to end up wholly in one of the Detroit districts. (If Democrats had control, on the other hand, McCotter's hometown of Livonia would probably have ended up in a Detroit-based district instead.)

30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.


Just missed this
I just missed this post, and posted down the thread about this.  Yeah, the idea that Detroit would be redistricted into one district, now, shows a total lack of understanding of what's gone on here in the state.

There are only really two scenarios, one of which is nearly as ridiculous as merging Detroit.  The first is that Levin and Peters are merged (this is the only realistic one).  The other is that Dingell and McCotter are merged, which would almost certianly doom McCotter, so that's not going to happen.

BTW, Conyers is a long-time Westsider and Clarke a long-time Eastsider.  This is how it usually works considering how the districts are drawn.  Not that any of this matters, legally, because you don't even have to live in the district you're running for.


[ Parent ]
Why?
I'm just curious...what purpose would it serve to draw Dearborn out of Dingell's district? It can be kept in easily, and Dingell will have a district to run in regardless.

Moderate Libertarian Republican, MA-8 (college) / MD-7 (hometown)

[ Parent ]
Why not
I disagree that it "can be kept in easily." You really have to go out of your way to not put Dearborn into a Detroit-based district. Michigan redistricting law frowns on county and city splitting, so the most natural direction the two Detroit-based districts to go is south -- especially since a Republican-drawn map is going to try to salvage the northwest part of the Wayne County for a Republican district, like the current 11th.

Other than the fact that Dingell lives in Dearborn, there's not really any reason for it not to be wholly in a Detroit-based district already. As it is, Dingell only has about half of it; the other half is in Conyer's district.
Since Dingell's lost the Commerce chair and has got to be closing in on retirement, I don't see why the Republicans would go out of their way to keep Dearborn in whatever the successor to the 15th is going to be.  

30, male, MI-11 (previously VA-08). Evangelical, postconservative, green.


[ Parent ]
Clorox: See the Difference
MO-Sen: If this primary does indeed become bloody, will the action be Teabagger versus Teabagger and establishment versus establishment, or will it just be every person for him or herself? I don't know how many Teabaggers might be thinking about getting in, but I am not sure it matters, since I don't know if they will be strategic enough to let the others fight it out and try to remain above the fray.

MN-08: Why aren't more people jumping into this race? It's still early, sure, but wouldn't we hear more about potential candidates, considering what a Democratic seat it is supposed to be?

Turnout models: I don't know if it's possible to discuss this now, but unless the swings tend to move in line with one another throughout different groups across the country, it makes far more sense, I think, the focus on the breakdown amongst each group in different states rather than the nation as a whole, or at the very least in each region.

I also think the idea of targeting voters is given far too little importance. I don't think it can override the fundamentals, but it could certainly make a difference in a close race, where the other things are more or less equal.


"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


MN-08
I guess part of the reason is that nobody really knows what the new district is going to look like.  Even though Minnesota didn't lose a seat, population shifts within the state are going to affect the lines in the 8th, which I'm about 99% sure will have to take on more population.

26, white male, TX-24, liberal-leaning independent

[ Parent ]
My impression
is that the district won't change to make it that much less friendly to Democrats. I could be wrong, however, so if I am, I hope one of the many Minnesota residents tells me so.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
MN-8
The 8th district is almost exactly where it needs to be for population (within several hundred, from the census data i saw). So no, the 8th doesn't need to add anything. The 7th, 4th and 5th need to take on area, while the 6th needs to shed a ton, and the 2nd needs to shed a little. The first, like the 8th, isut nearly exactly where it needs to be population wise.

But I think you are right, that people are wondering what the district will look like, although I would seriously doubt Duluth would be removed from the district. Doing so would actually be nearly impossible.

But to the previous poster's question about why more people aren't jumping in:
I think people are still in utter shock when it comes to Sertich taking a position at the IRRRB as opposed to running for this seat. Another possible candidate would be Sen. Tony Lourey (Although he has legitimate nepotism baggage). One of the "problems" with DFL dominance in the area for generations is that a lot of the legislators in the district, have been there since the bronze age, and are quite old. Everyone knew Ness wasn't interested in being a congressman, so his "no" wasn't a surprise. I am not sure that there will be tons of people jumping at this seat, and i see it more turning out to be everyone lining up behind 1 or 2 major candidates.

26 White Male. Born and raised in MN-8, currently living in MN-5.

"A man who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


[ Parent ]
MO-Sen Jim Talent's decision seems kind of odd
if he's counting on a long long series of the following bank shots:
1. Romney wins the R nomination.
2. Romney defeats Obama
3. Romney taps Talent for a cabinet job.

Running and winning that Senate election is infinitely better odds than that career plan.


I agree.
There's got to be something else going on.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
On the other hand,
Talent hasn't exactly displayed great political instincts in the past. He really strikes me as a fairly clueless creature of the Bush-era Beltway who hasn't been able to adapt to the fact that it's not 2002 anymore. Hitching his wagon to Romney's is just a coping mechanism, because Romney is the anointed candidate of the big business conservatives who used to run the GOP when Bush was in charge. It has less to do with thinking Romney can win and more to do with being in denial.


[ Parent ]
or
He's making big money for Fleishmann and getting trated like a king by heritage and he doesn't have to work very hard. Why give that up for the Senate? Been ther done that, shilling for Romney makes him seem relevant and if lightening strikes he gets to be SecDef

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
That definitely makes sense.


"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
That definitely makes sense.


"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
I think we're both right.
In any case, Talent going back to the Senate is in the past. As, I think, will be the case for a lot of these Bush-era GOPers who lost in 2006 or 08, then got cushy lobbying jobs. Somehow I doubt, for example, that we'll hear anything from Norm Coleman, Wayne Allard, Conrad Burns, or possibly Gordon Smith ever again.  

[ Parent ]
Senate Race Ratings
While we all await breathlessly the posting of SSP's first Senate Race Ratings for the 2012 cycle, I thought it'd be fun to take a look at the first ratings for the 2010 cycle, posted two years ago. It shows you how much can change.

As you can see, all the tossups at this point were Republican. By the time the cycle was over, the Republicans wouldn't lose any seats.

A couple of things that SSP was prescient about: Feingold as Likely D (a lot of us would have thought he should be Safe D at this point), and Illinois the same (no one thought Burris would win, but many of us assumed the Dems would be likely to keep the seat).

The big miss: SSP's prognosticators completely missed the world of hurt Blanche Lincoln would find herself in by the end of the cycle. (Kos missed this as well for a long time). Turned out the Republican bench in Arkansas wasn't as weak as everyone thought.

Anyway, enjoy:

http://www.swingstateproject.c...


I like the comment for Delaware
This race will only become exciting if Rep. Mike Castle gets in ...
Turned out to be far more exciting and more entertaining than anyone imagined (thank you Christine)

[ Parent ]
I remember
when Blanche Lincoln's poll numbers started tanking in the fall of 2009, I was like, how the hell is this happening? Then I remembered reading an article on Politico talking about Blanche Lincoln's approval numbers were lukewarm at best during the summer of that year. But an incumbent only managing 37% of the vote....even McGovern got a bigger share of the vote during his 1980 asswhopping. Even Santorum who manged to piss off everyone still managed to get crack 40%.  

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

[ Parent ]
Just what the hell happened?


"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Two words: Citizen's United.
n/t

[ Parent ]
Nope
Blanche's numbers were already so bad by then that the NRSC and Karl Rove's various groups didn't need to spend a dime down here.  

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

[ Parent ]
I think it was a combination of a couple of things
Lincoln trying way too hard to straddle the fence on issues like health care and thus alienating both sides, and the harsh turn of Arkansas to the right in the 2008 elections, which created a Republican base overnight and allowed the Republicans not only to take the Senate seat but three out of the four congressional races.

Also, the fact she ended up with a very legit opponent in John Boozeman couldn't have helped her.  


[ Parent ]
Exactly
Which group spent a dime on Arkansas last year?
She lost because Obama lost the state by 20 points, and she was perceived as supporting most of his agenda.

22, Male, Conservative Republican, anti-teabag, NY-8

[ Parent ]
One other interesting fact on Lincoln
One reason everyone assumed there was no Republican bench in Arkansas is because Repubs hadn't bothered to run a candidate against Mark Pryor in 2008. That won't happen in 2014, regardless of who is president. (and if Obama wins again in 2012, I'd almost be bold enough to say whoever runs against Pryor is the favorite. Of course, it's too early for that sort of thing).  

[ Parent ]
It wasn't just all of this.
It was the fact that Lincoln was out of touch with her state. Kind of like she had forgotten about Arkansans. That union ad that said she had moved away was sadly true, from what I understand. Pryor has the name recognition from his father, he has some constituent services, is very religious, and can learn from the Blanche lesson not to flip flop.

The Pryor numbers are odd. PPP polls the race twice (January '09 and January '10) and finds:

A net R+6 in terms of party Identification
Pryor's approval goes from +24 to 17. (Lincoln's went from +5 to 35). Among Democrats, Pryor's approval changes from 79/9/12 to 49/24/26.
Among Independents, Pryor's approval changes from 39/39/22 to 21/56/23.
Among Republicans, Pryor's approval changes from 35/50/15 to 14/59/27.

So I'd say he's an unknown quantity ... a 1/4 of the electorate still doesn't know him... but what's up with the amount of Democrats not knowing about him jumping from 12 to 26? Point is - when things were rosy for Democrats (a.k.a first half of 2009), Pryor's approval was +24. Lincoln's was never high to begin with, even while Democrats were enjoying their honeymoon. If conditions are right for Democrats, (and with Mike Ross likely leading the ticket), I can see Pryor win. But then again...if we witness the Democratic name go downhill, Pryor will go the way of Blanche.

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26


[ Parent ]
Coatails Shmoatails
I keep on hearing this over and over and it's simply not true! Exactly which Democrat in Arkansas was helped by Beebe's landslide? They lost every contested race. Coatails usually only helps in the event of increased minority etc. turnout in ptesidential years.

22, Male, Conservative Republican, anti-teabag, NY-8

[ Parent ]
Amen brotha
or NY where democrats went down in flames downballot, but not up ballot (Sen and GOV).  or in 2006 when Crist won solidly in FLorida, but dems won house seats and nelson won re-election.  jodi rell's re-election and republicans losing house seats in CT.  

Top ten signs you're an SSPer #1: your favorite song is "Panic At Tedisco" and no one understands what you mean.

[ Parent ]
It can happen, and it
often does happen, but it doesn't always have to happen. If the races were heavily affected by some other factor, coattails aren't likely to help. That happened to be the case with a lot of races this year.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Coattails
do happen in lower-office races, if the candidates are tied closely together and the margins are small. For example, here in Mass., Patrick's victory was really the reason Suzanne Bump won the Auditor's office because the voters he (re)energized were straight-ticket D. Or IL; I get the feeling that Dan Rutherford rode JBT's coattails to a degree, because their campaigns were quite closely tied over the office elimination issue.

Moderate Libertarian Republican, MA-8 (college) / MD-7 (hometown)

[ Parent ]
My point was on the fact that if you run candidates for the statewide offices,
Pryor has a better chance of doing well. If we run a nobody for governor, and other statewide offices, it will be harder for Pryor to get people out.

And I agree with you about coattails to an extent (they certainly don't extend to House seats!) - but if Mark Pryor and Mike Ross run competent campaigns (kind of like Schumer & Gillibrand) they should be okay. Pryor needs to run an Arkansas campaign - kind of like how he ran in 2002. Lincoln was already lost (by early 2009) - it was obvious that she was out of touch with her state. But I guess my point is that if you can run a coordinated campaign (and that would have mean Lincoln staying in touch from 2007-2008) she would have done as well as Beebe.  

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26


[ Parent ]
Coattails
 Only help if the coattails bring out a certain group of voters, not if they help win over independents. For example, Obama had strong coattails in 2008. He turned out
African American and young voters in North Carolina which resulted in Gov. Beverly Perdue and Congressman Larry Kissell. Also, in Virginia, he carried Nye to victory with high African American turnout there and Tom Perrellio with high university turnout.  

for more election analysis, visit  http://frogandturtle.blogspot....




17, CA-06,  


[ Parent ]
In 2014
They have a good bench. Griffin is most likely, but there is also Crawford, Womack, Lt. Gov Mark Darr, and the SoS

[ Parent ]
Why would the outcome
of the 2012 election have much of anything to do with what happens in 2014?  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
A Republican in the White House...
...would make it much easier for Pryor to get re-elected.  Obama in the White house drags him down.

[ Parent ]
This
Didn't help Daschle, and Arkansas is much more Republican by now than South Dakota

22, Male, Conservative Republican, anti-teabag, NY-8

[ Parent ]
Daschle
had the misfortune of missing the American public's six year itch by one cycle. I believe the point being made is that the president's party generally fairs very poorly during their second midterm, which is true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S...

NY-01/NY-19


[ Parent ]
Obama had his six year itch in 2010
The six year itch usually happens only when a President has a fairly OK first midterm.  Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, and Bush all either gained seats or lost a minimal number of seats in their first midterm.  

In the Senate in 2014, Democrats will likely lose seats just because they gained so many in 2008, but in the House, governorship, and state legislative level, there is nothing left for Republicans to gain now.  Republicans just swept everything clean in 2010.  


[ Parent ]
Well, maybe
But there's really only one relevant example: Clinton. Probably not enough to draw big conclusions out of.  

[ Parent ]
Well, depends on what 2012 is like
I can see all the Republican gains, and whoever survives in 2012, being reelected easily in 2014, meaning it's 2018 before Democrats have another banner midterm year.  

[ Parent ]
Republican gains in 2012?
I dont see Republican House gains in 2012 unless Obama loses reelection.  

[ Parent ]
i mean the 2010 gains
being reelected in 2012  

[ Parent ]
Daschle is different
he was the party's leader and thus a natural target.  

[ Parent ]
I understand
that this is the thinking behind such a claim. I just don't know if that rule applies so broadly.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Oh man, the 2016 Senate elections will be interesting!
And they are less than 2200 days away! Let's let the speculation begin.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Boswell
When Obama was making is way through Congress last night to give his speech, Lenard Boswell stopped in to shake his hand. You could also hear him saying "I'll be running again." Thought that was a good move on his part given Vilsak's moves lately.

Ugh,
but Boswell is such a lukewarm campaigner and his stamina has been weak at best the last few years, as has been his health. The guy's had 16 years and he's nearing 80. Why can't he just accept that it's time to hang up his spurs and that he probably couldn't beat Latham in a neutral environment?

[ Parent ]
You know, I'd say the same thing, but...
As DCCyclone pointed out in another post, he held on against a Republican opponent who, while weak, was the kind of person winning in a lot of other districts in 2010.

I've given up underestimating Boswell. And I think, based on the map the Iowa redistricting commission is likely to draw, that he would stand a good chance of beating Latham next year. (again, h/t to DCCyclone - DC, I'm stealing your best stuff on this one).

By the way, where's desmoinesdem been lately? It would be interesting to have her weigh in on all of this (what should happen with Vilsack and Boswell).  


[ Parent ]
Boswell has proven he isn't weak or lame
but that is against Republicans.  If Vilsack doesn't totally blow, she would have to be the favorite in a primary.

[ Parent ]
He did pretty well against Ed Fallon.


Independent Socialist & Chair of SSP Cranky Indianian Hoosier Caucus, IN-09

[ Parent ]
True.
He may be old, but he's no Paul Kanjorski.

With that said, though, if Vilsack is really set on this seat, it could be an ugly primary that only ends up benefiting Latham in the end. Running against an old incumbent just because he's old in a district that everyone knows is going away just seems like a dick move to me.  


[ Parent ]
He scraped by with 52%
in 2006, the best Democratic cycle in a generation, then in 2008 he got 56% against a nobody, and in 2010 he got 51% against a guy whose campaign fell apart half-way into cycle amidst allegations of domestic abuse and who was a hard-right conservative running in a moderate district.

I hardly call that strong. Boswell's only crossed 55% once this past decade. Beyond anything, he will be 78 years old on election day 2012.  


[ Parent ]
Having said that
Dems lost similar districts to people barely, if at all, better than Zaun.

[ Parent ]
Also, isn't this district designed to be a swing district?
I think Greg Ganske held it before Boswell.  

[ Parent ]
Greg Ganske held a different district
One that was slightly more Republican, and he was a very moderate Republican himself.

Yes, this is a classic swing district. Obama won it I think by 5 points, and Bush carried it by 100 votes.  


[ Parent ]
Jim Lightfoot (R) preceded Boswell.


Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Technically it would be Ganske
"For his first three terms, Boswell represented a sprawling district that stretched from the Illinois border almost to the Nebraska border. However, his district was dismantled in the 2000s round of redistricting (even though Iowa didn't lose any seats), and its territory was split among three other districts. Boswell's home was shifted to the heavily Republican 5th District. Rather than face almost certain defeat, Boswell moved to Des Moines in the newly created 3rd District-thus making him technically the successor to Greg Ganske, who represented a Des Moines-based district from 1995 to 2003 and ran unsuccessfully for the U.S. Senate in 2002."


[ Parent ]
Totally different district
That district had none of Des Moines in it. Boswell's previous district was completely dismantled in the 2002. Boswell does pretty well in the rural areas for a Democrat, but he seems to do poorly in the suburban areas; areas Obama did particularly well in.

FYI, Lightfoot represented that incarnation of the 3rd for just two terms, winning the first reelection in 1992 49-48, and winning by a healthier margin during a 1994 rematch.  


[ Parent ]
Give me some examples,
other than Adam West.

[ Parent ]
Off the top of my head
Frank Guinta, Blake Farentold, David Rivera, Joe Walsh, Andy Harris, Tim Walberg.  

[ Parent ]
MD-01
is a good 10 percentage points to the right of where IA-03 sits. Young, Democratic leaning Cuban, AA and Puerto Rican voters didn't vote in Rivera's district, Farentold and Walsh caught napping Democratic incumbents off guard, while I'd argue that NH-01 is a lot tougher for a Democrat to win than it's numbers suggest and that is a very Republican area in years when fiscal issues are important. The only decent example there is Walberg, but I'd also have to argue that district has no strongly Democratic leaning center. Battle Creek is too swingish to be considered so, and so that's a district I'd argue is tougher to win because the Democrat has to win over the greater percentage of moderate voters. What's more Michigan was a disaster for Democrats this cycle.  

[ Parent ]
MD-01
is a good 10 percentage points to the right of where IA-03 sits. Young, Democratic leaning Cuban, AA and Puerto Rican voters didn't vote in Rivera's district, Farentold and Walsh caught napping Democratic incumbents off guard, while I'd argue that NH-01 is a lot tougher for a Democrat to win than it's numbers suggest and that is a very Republican area in years when fiscal issues are important. The only decent example there is Walberg, but I'd also have to argue that district has no strongly Democratic leaning center. Battle Creek is too swingish to be considered so, and so that's a district I'd argue is tougher to win because the Democrat has to win over the greater percentage of moderate voters. What's more Michigan was a disaster for Democrats this cycle.  

[ Parent ]
Fair enough
But goes to show Boswell was on-guard. He deserves at least some credit for bucking the tide despite his opponent especially given his history of close calls.  

[ Parent ]
Boswell
He represents a swing district and just about all districts like his fell to opponents that I would even call questionable. He won and is a very good Democrat as far as voting very progressively in a swing district. Until he is defeated or has a scandal erupt that causes voters to lose faith in him the seat should be his as long as he wants it.

You asked for other examples of people off the top of my head who lost who had worse opponents but arguably had better districts:

1) Ron Klein - enough said
2) Melissa Bean
3) Jim Oberstar - napping
4) Solomon Ortiz - napping
5) Mark Schauer - not like he lost to an unknown guy
6) Bob Ethridge - self-inflicted but his opponent was a joke
7) Paul Kanjorski - though he was corrupt his opponent was quite polarizing

Bottom line is unless if Boswell deserves a primary via a bad voting record or a scandal he should receive the party's support. Neither exists for him.


28, Male, Democrat VA-08  


[ Parent ]
Oberstar
I agree that he was caught napping, but I don't know that Cravaack should be lumped in with those other jokers. He was a political rookie but he didn't seem to do or say anything really stupid (unlike Zaun) and seemed to have at least some familiarity with the district's issues.

41, Ind, CA-05

[ Parent ]
Adam West (R-Gotham City)?
Renee Ellmers is a pretty strong candidate for the whack-job-in-a-swing-district sweepstakes. Boswell did better than Etheridge.

25, PA-10

[ Parent ]
I think he meant Allen West
not Adam West (R?-Quahog).

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Not accurate at all to call Vilsack the favorite, that is a misguided notion......
There's this notion out there that Christine Vilsack is a rising star, a Hillary mini-me if you will, and will beat Boswell as an old washed up pol.  This is all notional nonsense.  As others have pointed out here, Boswell has proven his mettle over a long time, and 2010 was his most impressive campaign yet.  He's tough, his 16 years have earned him a lot of quiet voter loyalty, and his age is no issue except to whatever extent he could eventually develop health problems that hamper his ability to campaign.  And Vilsack hasn't proven a thing.  I don't care what insiders say, until she actually runs a good campaign, we don't know what kind of campaign she'll run.  She's never run for anything in her life, so conjecture that she's a good candidate who'll know what she's doing is just that:  conjecture.

I don't question that Vilsack might very well live up to her billing, or that she could knock off Boswell in a primary.  But she would not be any kind of favorite at the outset.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
She's been around.
She commented on IA redistricting recently, can't remember which thread.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
She also maintains her own blog, Bleeding Heartland
I haven't looked, but I'm guessing they've had plenty of discussion there on Vilsack's congressional aspirations.

20, CD MA-03/NH-01/MA-08

[ Parent ]
House
Republicans pass the repeal of public financing for Presidential campaigns. 10 Democrats (basically all of the remaining blue dogs) join the Republicans on this vote.

http://www.politico.com/news/s...

This sort of begs the question in the aftermath of 2008 where Obama opted out of public financing and was able to outspend McCain by a gigantic margin, is public financing obsolete? I mean I doubt any of the GOP candidates who have a legitimate chance of becoming the nominee in 2012 will take public financing in the GE. Neither will Obama.  

19, Male, Independent, CA-12


I think it is becoming obsolete
Unless it is restructured to supply A LOT more money to keep the candidate who takes it competitive, it will become obsolete.

[ Parent ]
Or perhaps a constitutional amendment
that limits the amount of money that can be spent in some practical fashion.

I guess that means no more $3 checkbox on the 1040.


[ Parent ]
At least for presidential candidates,
maybe it's not necessary. After all, everyone has access to the Internet, so they can try to raise money from small donors as well as the big ones. And it's not as if nominations just fall into candidates' laps, so it's not as if the major party nominees will be struggling to find donors.

I think it's much more relevant to lower level races, particularly in the House. You don't always need huge sums to win, and the local groups can help you out, but I imagine the barrier to entry is pretty high in a lot of competitive districts. Plus, it'd be nice if more districts were contested, even if the outcome is unlikely to change. The amount of money that this would require would likely be small, to the point where it'd make no difference in the overall budget if it came from the federal government. In fact, you could probably easily find the money by slightly adjusting some basic corporate subsidies.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
Detroit
I will tell you right now that there will be two Detroit districts.  The idea that the two would be merged is pretty unfounded in any kind of reality on the ground here in Michigan.  The merged district will be in the northern or western Detroit suburbs, not in Detroit proper.

I am so sick
of hearing from Republicans that "the original intent of the founding fathers" blah blah blah.  The founding fathers founded a country with 4 million people in it.  We now have a country with 320 million people in it.  Management of a country almost 100 times larger than when its founding document was created entails a different type of management than the founding fathers could have imagined.  Moreover, the Republicans say that the founding fathers were rebels against the tyrrany of the British empire.  In reality the Constitution was a document that had a much stronger federal government than the original Articles of Confederation because they knew that a weak federal government is one bound for failure.  I'm just sick of Republcans like that idiot Broun from Georgia perverting 230 year old history to fit their radical Ayn Rand politics.

Also, the framers themselves disagreed
... on what was best. The idea that they were all proto-libertarians is nuts. There were gaping disagreements and the Constitution is a fairly minimalist document with lots of ambiguity because of that.

Separately, I'll add that the dirty little secret is that even at the time, the big government types - Hamilton, the Federalists, etc. - won nearly all the major battles.  


[ Parent ]
Kohl retiring?
Lots of internet chatter (from blogs I've never heard of mostly) the Kohl has decided to hang up his cleats. Anyone have any intel on this?

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


Which blogs?
I've been on Twitter and Googled any mention of him retiring since reading your post and I couldn't find any recent information.

[ Parent ]
Care to link to some
of those blogs?

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Kohl rumor
Yep,
Saw it on republican blog Red Riding Horses tonight

[ Parent ]
And if you investigate further,
you'll see they have no sources either.

In any case, this level of legislative activity http://www.wisconsininternetne...

doesn't seem characteristic of a Senator who is about to retire, especially in a Congress with mixed control


[ Parent ]
The only google result from that search
lists a board suggestion that it's on the Hedgehog report --

And a google searching the Hedgehog report comes up with nothing. A direct read of the Hedgehog report back to Jan 21 comes up with nothing.


[ Parent ]
Perhaps we should start a rumor here
That Snowe will declare tomorrow that she's not running for re-election, that Scott Brown has come out of the closet, that Linda McMahon is moving to California, that Kara DioGuardi is running for the R nomination against Gillibrand, that Michelle Bachmann has declared that she's running for President even if Palin throws her hat into the ring, etc....

[ Parent ]
Kara DioGuardi,
I'd wager, would've faired better against KG than her father did, simply because of name recognition.

Moderate Libertarian Republican, MA-8 (college) / MD-7 (hometown)

[ Parent ]
One of the elements of starting a rumor with legs
is that rumor has to be at least slightly credible.

No question, Kara would probably have done better than her father in '10, and I think is the kind of candidate that Rs need in '12 to keep Gillibrand from campaigning for others in this coming cycle.


[ Parent ]
I don't
understand that last line at all.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
'12 should be an excellent opportunity for Gilibrand
to start building her cred with others, to help others with fundraising, etc, to give her more of a presence nationally.

It would pay dividends w/r/t her legislative priorities -- and potentially for some future Presidential campaign.


[ Parent ]
Okay, that's
what I thought you meant. Were you joking when you brought up DioGuardi?  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Yup to all of it
I was illustrating sample rumors that could easily get legs given the right campaign on the blogsphere -- and could at least force a denial from the target in question.

[ Parent ]
Ah, okay.


"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
If Gillibrand was going to be vulnerable at any time it
was going to be 2010.  

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
From what I have heard,
one of those is true.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
so no


"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
president sharrrrrron angle?
http://politicalwire.com/archi...

Top ten signs you're an SSPer #1: your favorite song is "Panic At Tedisco" and no one understands what you mean.

Probably wants to run to save the R party from RINOs
like Palin and Bachmann...

[ Parent ]
or...
"Someone, anyone, pay attention to me again!"

Top ten signs you're an SSPer #1: your favorite song is "Panic At Tedisco" and no one understands what you mean.

[ Parent ]
Just when I thought
the obscure competition couldn't get any more ridiculous, she doesn't flatly deny any interest in running. She actually makes Santorum look like a reasonable candidate, at least as far as his business of being in the race is concerned, something I didn't think was possible.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
Yeah
But would she legitimatize a John Bolton candidacy as well?

Independent Socialist & Chair of SSP Cranky Indianian Hoosier Caucus, IN-09

[ Parent ]
Must have nothing more constructive to do with her time


24, male, African-American, CA-24, Democrat. Chair of the SSP Black Caucus.

[ Parent ]
Mangano's experiment is failing, Nassau County seized by state agency.
Mangano cut taxes and nothing else, denied there was a budget problem, now the county's deficit is $2.7 billion and their bond rating is falling.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01...

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


Wow
Mangano doesn't sound like a Republican or a Democrat economically....just an idiot.

But the county has resisted cuts in services, and its current leaders have been just as adamant about not raising taxes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01...

In tough economic times like this you either have to 1) cut services, 2) raise taxes, 3) a mixture of both. Not cut taxes but keep spending at the same level because just plain foolishness.  

19, Male, Independent, CA-12


[ Parent ]
Mangano was
boosted by the tea party to that position.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
ROFL
you serious? Because I thought one of the planks of the Tea Party was to take an chainsaw and cut government spending indiscriminately...at least that's what Michelle Bachmann was saying last night while staring at the wrong camera. Tom Suozzi must be laughing right now.  

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

[ Parent ]
Tea Party hates him now
they just wanted to beat Suozzi. There was a Conservative challenge. Suozzi lost 48-48-4.


[ Parent ]
Too late
They own him, just like they own O'Donnell, Angle, and Crazy Carl.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
If
Nassau county needs to be bailed out again, Democrats in the state senate should roll over dead and force Skelos to rely on his caucus to pass a bailout. Especially since all of Nassau county (and LI) is represented by Republicans in the state senate. And even then, bailing out the county again might not be smart since much of their budget problems seem structural in nature:

Nassau's government, once a model for other suburban communities, has long been plagued by a tangled property tax-assessment system that forces it to refund tens of millions of dollars a year to residents and business owners who win appeals of their local, school and county tax bills. In effect, the county subsidizes some of the nation's richest school districts.

Nothing like the threat of bankruptcy to get things done...(I know I sound cruel.)

19, Male, Independent, CA-12


[ Parent ]
I doubt the state will bail them out
it didn't bail out Erie County.

Nassau County, where I went to high school, is a great example of having your cake and wanting to eat it too. The schools were expensive to maintain because the standards people wanted were astronomical. In the shadow of NYC, people who lived in Nassau County in the 1970s-1990s were mostly NYC transplants who wanted their kids to be better than those in the city. We were taught to look down on the city kids, they didn't have what we had.

But when the bill go to our parents, the chickens came home to roost and now the country is broke.

It's no surprise that everyone I went to high school with...left.


[ Parent ]
I wonder
how much of it is from decreased revenue due to the recession. I'm sure some of it is structural, but you have to think a decent chunk of it is cyclical.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
My dad's from Nassau County
and I feel for the hundreds of thousands of voters who didn't want a moron as their county exec, I really do. But the majority needs to stop voting for an idiot and then being shocked when he turns out to be.........an idiot. Seriously. As awful as I feel for the people in Nassau County who did nothing to deserve this, I have to admit feeling some schadenfreude towards the people who voted for this douchecake, as awful as it is.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
The problem was
everyone felt with a Conservative on the ballot that Suozzi was a shoo-in and didn't bother to vote.

Magnano only won with 122,000 votes. No one has ever won a CE election with so few votes.

And for most of the 122,000 people who voted for him, they think this is a Democratic conspiracy against them anyway.

For the next election, the Democratic candidate, whoever it may be, needs to bank 150,000 votes at least and they'll sail into office.  


[ Parent ]
It's worse
He slashed taxes without cutting services. And then just "assumed" big savings in his budget from illusory, speculative deals with unions and illusory state aid. Pure idiocy.  

[ Parent ]
Shades of 2001.
I remember Smash255 mentioning that before the Democrats swept Nassau, as well as Suffolk ("Crookhaven"), that their bond rating was junk and the state had to take over IIRC. Now-former exec Tom Suozzi did a stellar job of turning the county's finances around.

Suozzi first became County Executive at a time when the county was near bankruptcy, being elected by a 2-to-1 margin in a County with more registered Republicans than any county in New York State. He helped engineer the Democratic takeover of the Nassau County legislature from the once vaunted "Republican machine."

Just days before Suozzi's inauguration as Nassau County Executive in 2002, the Maxwell School of Public Affairs rated Nassau the "worst run county in the nation." Within his first year in office, Suozzi turned a $428 million deficit into a balanced budget, leading one of the most dramatic financial turnarounds in the country.[citation needed]



My blog
Twitter
Scribd
28, New Democrat, Female, TX-03 (hometown CA-26)


[ Parent ]
If memory serves me correctly,
one way he did that was by raising taxes substantially. This hadn't been done in a while, so people were getting more government than they were used to paying for.

Also, Brookhaven, or "Crookhaven" as you refer to it, is a township in Suffolk County.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
Were you the one
that described the situation in Nassau County as a Swedish-style government being run by Italian-American Republicans?


"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?

[ Parent ]
No, wasn't me.


Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
That's basically the idea


[ Parent ]
Remember Filibuster reform? It went nowhere.
Er
I don't think that was the strategy at all. York is full of crap as ever.

[ Parent ]
filibuster reform died
when Republicans won the House.


[ Parent ]
Democrats
realized reforming the filibuster would open a can of worms if they found themselves in the minority again in 2012 or 2014.

19, Male, Independent, CA-12

[ Parent ]
Good
The filibuster may be the only thing to save social security.  Besides, if the GOP takes over, they will surely kill the filibuster, despite the lies McConnell is saying now about not doing it.

[ Parent ]
They have an agreement on some reform
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-50...

Which is close to the strategy outlined late last year. There never was an effort to do away with the 60 vote threshold. As I said, Byron York is full of BS.


[ Parent ]
Once again
There is never going to be a majority in either the House or the Senate to touch Social Security (they never even brought it to a vote back in 2005 in the House, do you think that was because Tom DeLay was too timid?)

I get if people want to keep the filibuster, but Social Security isn't being protected by some arcane rule, it's protected by the fact that it's really popular.

Politics and Other Random Topics

24, Male, Democrat, NM-01, Chairman of the Atheist Caucus, and Majority Leader of the "Going to Hell" caucus!


[ Parent ]
George Allen on NRO
Intersting interview with George Allen on NRO.

http://www.nationalreview.com/...

Most intriguing part is he seems to think the challenge to the nomination isn't ideological (teaparty vs establishment), but simply rebranding himself to get beyone the Macaca flub.

The GOP primary will be interesting and a similair dynamic may develop in Missouri & Texas - Tea Party "amateurism" vs establishment conservatives. We aren't talking about the Utah or Deleware primaries last year where moderates were knocked down by tea party conservatives, these are solidly conservative candidates (Allen notes his lifetime ACU rating of 95-100) that can't be attacked from the RW, but perhaps can be attacked for not being sufficiently vocal in attacking opponents like the TP grassroots wants.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


Huntsman in '12? Seriously?
Well, Cillizza is reporting it... http://voices.washingtonpost.c...

But the same level of doubt remains.... Seriously?

(If it is true, perhaps in a parallel universe, that could easily doom both him and Romney.)


Rarely does a Repub get the nomination
Without running before. McCain, Dole, Bush 41, Reagan. Maybe he figures he can build name rec for 2016 and on the off chance gets lucky in a split field.

[ Parent ]
Commonality among all of those
McCain, Dole, Bush 41, Reagan -- They had a serious shot at the nomination in their previous attempt -- and many people took them seriously when they started running the previous time.

I see none of that for Huntsman. However, I'd seriously consider voting for him -- if the D candidate were Dennis Kucinich.

Nevertheless, I could see Huntsman as a serious alternative in '20 or '24, if President Obama is re-elected -- and if a Democratic candidate succeeds him. That would motivate Rs to pivot towards the center with a Huntsman-like candidate.


[ Parent ]
He might well alright in New Hampshire, but he's just not a primary-friendly candidate
Perhaps he's positioning himself as a conservative's VP? After all, if Romney loses the nomination b/c of Obamacare, he probably won't be chosen for the #2 slot. Huntsman's problem, of course, is that there are other moderates perhaps poised to run - Pawlenty, and, supposedly if Palin runs, Giuliani. If these guys are serious about mounting a legit, competitive moderate candidate in the coming primaries, they oughta coalesce around one. Of course, Romney and Pawlenty seem completely dead-set on this.

For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast

[ Parent ]
And he has the same problem in SC as Romney
VP is an interesting thought.

[ Parent ]
On second reading
I'd say Cillizza is guessing based on his reading of Huntsman's inner circle. The Fix has similar posts for all the possible GOP candidates.

[ Parent ]
Anything is possible,
but I don't see it happening. After all, what sort of advantages does he bring that nobody else brings that won't sink him in a primary?

Besides, that Newsweek article seems to base his supposed interest in running on nothing more than the fact that he has people lined up to help him if he does (which I doubt is unique) and the fact that he said he might run in the future while winking at the reporter. I'm not kidding.  

"I have never deliberately given anybody hell. I just tell the truth on the opposition-and they think it's hell."--President Harry Truman. President Obama, are you listening?


[ Parent ]
So Huntsman wants to run as this years Pataki...
....and even Pataki has veered off way into right field because even his delusional self doesn't want to be the George Pataki of 2012.  Course if Pataki keeps running he could inherent the mantle sadly vacated by another former Governor, Harold Stassen.  Of course that would be unfair to Harold Stassen.  Unlike Pataki he actually was a serious contender the first three times he ran.

Huntsman could eat into Romney's Mormon money that helped him get a fundraising jump last time (just as Mike Dukakis did 20 years ago with his tremendous fundraising within the Greek-American community).

NY-13, Democrat. Blog @ http://infinitefunction.wordpr...


[ Parent ]
Kirsten Gillibrand now a member of the Armed Services Committee.
Hmmmm.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

She's our next president...
Bank on it!

[ Parent ]
Not sure about next
But a future contender certainly.

[ Parent ]
It wouldn't surprise me if there is
a real push to nominate a woman in 2016. The Democratic party is filled with highly qualified women, but Senator Gillbrand definitely seems to be going the way of then Senator Clinton.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
women
Hillary would probably cruise to the nomination. At 69 she'd still be younger than McCain and Dole were when they ran.

Beyond that, I don't see anyone too exciting. The only sitting Dem governors are Perdue and Gregoire, both of whom are a few months older than Hillary and not that popular. In the Senate you have Stabenow (66 on election day 2016), Murray (66), Hagan (63), McCaskill (63), Landrieu (60), Cantwell (58), Klobuchar (56), and then Gillibrand (49).  Of that group I think only the last two could plausibly run. I don't see ex-governors Sebelius (68) or Napolitano (58) running either.

The only other realistic possibility would be a governor or senator elected in 2012, but not 2014.


41, Ind, CA-05


[ Parent ]
I still believe Hillary Clinton will run in 2016.
If she doesn't it will be another woman.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
Agreed, and she'll be the overwhelming favorite like Dole in '96


For daily political commentary, visit me at http://polibeast.blogspot.com/ and http://twitter.com/polibeast

[ Parent ]
In and out of the primary.
If she is the Democratic nominee I would assume she would be the prohibitive favorite in the general. Of course I could be making an ass of myself for assuming.

19, Self Appointed Chair of the SSP Gay Caucus (I claimed it first :p), male, Dem, IN-09 (College IN-09) (Raised IL-03, IL-09)

[ Parent ]
PPP
Polling AZ and SC next. They want suggestions. I've posted Phil Gordon for Arizona.

Matt Salmon?
He's been out of politics for a while, but he's still in his early 50s and could plausibly run for Senate. I'd also like to see them test Russell Pearce against some Dems. He'll probably be nominated if Kyl steps down and the party continues on its current trajectory.

41, Ind, CA-05

[ Parent ]
NC-Gov: Perdue pulling closer.
She is now only trailing McCrory by 40-47.  She is resurging amongst indies and is now only trails with them by 10, as opposed to 35 earlier on.

http://publicpolicypolling.blo...

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


Her big problem is her base...
Question is, which part of the base, conservadems or real democrats.

[ Parent ]
Conservadems are real Dems too


[ Parent ]
Not when they bash the party, it's platform, and it's leaders...
No republican would ever be caught dead doing what many (not all) conservadems do on a daily basis (dragging the party down).

[ Parent ]
Yeah, good one
DeMint et al never bash their party.

[ Parent ]
Two Words: Christine O'Donnell


[ Parent ]
Only!
How bad were things before? We got ample proof in November that being upder 50% isn't the automatic death notice so many seem to think, but if polling at 40% and down 7% is good news...yeash!

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
Oh please
The election is nearly two years away. She has plenty time for this to become the start of a trend. So yeah, good news.

[ Parent ]
Like I said
Obvious example of how this is far from a death sentence, but good news?

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
Perhaps
But what would you say to GOPers if they started crowing that Romney had gone from down 12 to down 7?

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
Romney isn't an incumbent


[ Parent ]
You've got me on that point
But wouldn't that work in my favor on this argument? As I've said numberous times being under 50% isn't anything like the death sentence so many here and in the professional pundit class seem to think, but in general being 10% under it AND trailing your challenger by 7 is not a good place to be.

I'd be very curious to see if anyone has ever done a large scale analysis of the win probability of incumbents poling in certain ranges at certain intervals before the election.

For instance, do incumbents polling under 45% 18 months out do dramatically better than incumbents polling there 3,6 & 12 months prior? and turning it on it's head, how often do incumbents polling over 50% 18 months out lose vs those polling there 3, 6 & 12 months out?

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
Nate had something
But I don't think it was that exhaustive. In terms of Perdue it is a start and nothing more.

[ Parent ]
Last time they polled her (in November)
she was behind 47-35, which was actually an improvement at the time.  Also, this is a hypothetical match-up.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
PPPolling should know better
I love this quote from the release "McCrory now leads Perdue with 47% to her 40%. That is an improvement on the 49-37 deficit Perdue found herself in when the race was last tested"

47-40 or 49-37, seem important, right? Except the MoE on the poll is +/-4.1%, so that difference is statistically insignificant.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
But the shift in indies is not.
She was behind 35 with them, now only by 10.  That is a significant improvement!

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
Minus 12
To -7 is beyond it.

[ Parent ]
MoE is per number, not margin
Thus a 47-40 could be 51-36 or 43-44.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
From your wiki-post

Definition

In media reports of poll results, the term usually refers to the maximum margin of error for any percentage from that poll.

key part ANY PERCENTAGE from that poll.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
I was referring to "51-36 or 43-44"
I was under the impression it doesn't work like that.

[ Parent ]
The Wiki page doesn't describe it well
This is the paper (p63 of "What is a Survey") that is referenced on the Wiki page;

"In the case of the mayoral poll in which 55 of 100 sampled individuals support Ms. Smith, the sample estimate would be that 55 percent support Ms. Smith-however, there is a margin of error of 10 percent. Therefore, a 95 percent confidence interval for the percentage supporting Ms. Smith would be (55%-10%) to (55%+10%) or (45 percent, 65 percent), suggesting that in the broader community the support for Ms. Smith could plausibly range from 45 percent to 65 percent. This implies-because of the small sample size-considerable uncertainty about whether a majority of townspeople actually support Ms. Smith.
Instead, if there had been a survey of 1,000 people, 550 of whom support Ms. Smith, the sample estimate would again be 55 percent, but now the margin of error for Ms. Smith's support would only be about 3 percent. A 95 percent confidence interval for the proportion supporting Ms. Smith would thus be (55%-3%) to (55%+3%) or (52 percent, 58 percent), which provides much greater assurance that a majority of the town's voters support Ms. Smith.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
No it doesn't
We need a clear explanation because I get confused every time it comes up.

[ Parent ]
I'll try to simplify it
The Margin of Error is the probably range of actual responses for EACH NUMBER reported. Thus you can be 95% sure that if you spoke to every person in NC the percentage of persons giving a given answer is within 4.1% (in this case) of the number from the survey.

It's a common mistake (especially among the press) to apply the MoE to the margin, thus a 4pt lead could actually be a tie or an 8 point lead.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
Ah
Final paragraph. That is what I was getting at. Very confusing.

[ Parent ]
There's another important point about MoE......
One thing people don't realize is that the range of error is a bell curve, with the middle of the curve being the point of highest probability.  And that number is the reported one.

So, if Obama leads Palin, say, 50-35 in a poll with a 4% MoE, yes it's with 95% confidence he's anywhere from 46-54, but not all the points along that range are equally likely.  The 50% reported figure is the most likely, with the probability dropping in either direction from there.  So when people see Dave Dem leading Rick Rep, say, 45-41 with a 3% margin of error, and then say "but Rick Rep could be up 44-42!", that's actually misleading.  In fact, the extremes of the range are far less likely to be accurate than the midpoint of each range.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
But there's also this:
She was behind 35 with them, now only by 10.  That is a significant improvement!


Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
with indies


Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
I'm not saying there is NO good news for her
But she's still trailing, she's still polling a historically weak number for an incument to be re-elected, and her approval numbers are not only net negative, but negative among all age groups. This biggest thing though is that she HAS defeated McCrory before and since it's an on year gubernatorial race she can expect a much more consistent overall voter demographic in '12 than an incumbent elected in '06 and up again in '10 could have anticipated.

"Earnestness is stupidity sent to college"
P. J. O'Rourke


[ Parent ]
Would you prefer "better" news?


[ Parent ]
She has plenty of time to turn things around
Jesse Helms was trailing Jim Hunt by 20 points two years out before beating him in 1984.    

[ Parent ]
Pence announcement today
Pence deciding
whether to run for governor or congress

President off the table:
http://www.lifenews.com/2011/0...

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26


[ Parent ]
TPX won't target Orrin Hatch.
Good for him.  Considering it's Utah, if Hatch goes down, the replacement will be far more to the right.
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo...

Note: Sal Russo, who is a leading member of the group, used to work for Jack Kemp, George Pataki, and...Orrin Hatch.

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


Patty Murray now Senate Veterans' Affairs Committee Chairwoman.
Did Akaka step down to chair something else?

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


Indian Affairs.
And Barbara Mikulski, longest-serving woman in Senate history, still doesn't have a gavel.

[ Parent ]
Agreed.
She deserved that HELP Committee chairmanship!

Ad hoc, ad loc and quid pro quo!
So little time, so much to know!


[ Parent ]
(I'm pointing this out because it's been suggested that he might retire.)


[ Parent ]
Yeah
It was weird people kept bringing him up as a possibilty. He was pretty clear he was running again.

[ Parent ]
McCaskill 48% (D)
Graves 44% (R)

Graves polls the best of the Republicans apparently

http://www.rollcall.com/news/-...

28, Liberal Democrat, CA-26



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