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WA-Sen: SurveyUSA Finds Rossi Lead

by: Crisitunity

Sun Aug 22, 2010 at 7:17 PM EDT


SurveyUSA for KING-TV (8/18-19, likely voters, 4/19-22 in parens):

Patty Murray (D-inc): 45 (42)
Dino Rossi (R): 52 (52)
Undecided: 3 (7)
(MoE: ±4%)

Let's see... we could believe this SurveyUSA poll, which seems to be one of a growing string of west coast outliers for them (leaving them fully 11 points to the right of Rasmussen), or we could believe the poll taken on Tuesday, that had 0% undecideds, 0% leaners, a MoE of 0%, and an n of probably 1.6 million (1 million so far, with only two-third counted). I'm talking, of course, about Washington's Top Two primary, which, because of its unusual all-parties-in-one-pool nature, functions as essentially the most accurate poll you're going to see taken all cycle.

The usual rule of thumb in the Top 2 primary is to project the total Dem and total GOP percentages out toward November. The current individual totals (with only 2/3ds of votes counted, though) are still Patty Murray 46, Dino Rossi 34, Clint Didier 12, but the real story is that the total Dem and GOP votes are essentially 50-49 right now, with a lead of 10,000 for all GOP candidates (Rossi, Didier, Paul Akers, and a whole bunch of anonymous weirdos) over all Dem candidates, out of more than a million votes. So for this SurveyUSA poll to be right:

a) Dino Rossi would have to consolidate every GOP vote behind him -- every Didier vote, every Akers vote, every Norma Gruber vote, and so on -- pick up every vote from every third-party or no-party candidate, pick up every vote for all the other hapless Dems who ran in the primary (including every Goodspaceguy vote and Mike the Mover vote), and then somehow turn around 1% of the electorate who voted for Patty Murray in the primary to vote for him instead,

a1) and that's all presuming that the 46-34-12 percentages don't change, although they most likely will, in a Murray-favorable direction by another percent or two, as the majority (1200 out of 2000) of outstanding precincts still to report are in traditionally slow-to-report King, Pierce, or Snohomish Counties... or

b) the number of Dems participating in November would have to be smaller, rather than bigger, than the number particpating in the primary... despite the fact that Dems had no major incentive to participate in Tuesday's primary, seeing as how there weren't any noteworthy Dem-on-Dem primary battles above the state legislative level, compared with the intensely fought Republican Senate contest in the primary and several others in House races. (In other words, the Democratic share in November is likely to go up from the primary, not down, when it's actually for all the marbles instead of an academic exercise.)

Unlike a lot of SurveyUSA crosstabs, there isn't the frequently-present quirk of young people loving the Republicans (here, the 18-34 set goes for Murray 50-49). Instead, the strangest number is that Murry and Rossi are tied in "metro Seattle" 48-48. That would be approximately true if "metro Seattle" were limited to suburban Pierce and Snohomish Counties (where current counts from Tuesday are 50 all GOP/48 all Dems in Pierce, and 50 all Dems/49 all GOP in Snohomish), but King County (which has a population greater than Pierce + Snohomish combined) is at 60 all Dems/37 all GOP. So, no, they aren't tied in metro Seattle.

Also worth noting: SurveyUSA seemed to misunderestimate Murray's vote share in their pre-primary polls (their last one saw a 41-33-11 primary), despite being close enough to the election to include a number of "actual voters," i.e. those who'd already mailed in ballots. PPP, by contrast, came closer to nailing the primary from several weeks further out (predicting 47-33-10). SurveyUSA's pre-primary sample didn't also include general election matchups (their last general election trendlines are from April), but that same PPP sample that was quite close on the primary also projected a 49-46 race in favor of Murray in November (closely matching Rasmussen's 50-46 win for Murray, with leaners pushed, from this week).

Also, PPP, in their sample several weeks ago, found that Rossi isn't on track to consolidate all Didier and Akers voters; they were planning to go for Rossi by an 82-11 margin. That's even more complicated by what seems to be an increase in tensions between the Rossi and Didier camps in the last few days, rather than any moves toward unity, after Didier gave a list of demands on Friday before he'd endorse Rossi. After Rossi shrugged that off, the Didier camp started dropping f-bombs in response to questions from local politics website Publicola:

Didier's spokeswoman, Kathryn Serkes was more candid with us:

"So is Dino saying, 'Fuck you' to those people [who supported Didier]? 'Fuck you, I don't need your votes? I can win with 33 percent.'"

UPDATE: In my more cynical moments, I think that it could be that this whole conflict was scripted ahead of time, professional wrestling-style, in order to help Rossi burnish his moderate credentials by refusing to be held hostage by the teabagger, as he now has to sprint back to the middle. Somehow, though, it feels like it has that spark of autheniticity.

Crisitunity :: WA-Sen: SurveyUSA Finds Rossi Lead
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Clint Didier
Always a class act.  

Why
did Mama Grizzly endorse him? Was it just to build cred with the tea partiers pissed that she was endorsing establishment likely winners or what?  

Proud member of the Indiana Democratic Party from IN-9.  

[ Parent ]
That makes alot of sense
Since she was endorsing establishment candidates before this and now she endorsed a teabagger that had no chance of beating Rossi.

BTW, you stay classy Clint.

22, Male, Democrat, PA-18.


[ Parent ]
Giving her too much credit
I really do not read too much into whom she endorses at this point.  She has shown herself to be so ideologically and factually incoherent that I really doubt it makes sense to draw any connections between whom she endorses and when she endorses them.

All I know is that the vast majority of Republicans that are middle and upper class dislike her now.  I think I was the first Republican to dislike her, but I am having a lot of Republicans I know from upper and middle class backgrounds come to me and tell me how right I was about her.  The only Republicans I think that like her are lower and lower-middle class Republicans.  Additionally she seems to have a strong following among conservaDems in western Pennsylvania.  Basically what I refer to as the bitter/clingers or victim conservatives.

23, male, center-right cynical Republican, PA-7


[ Parent ]
Additionally she seems to have a strong following among conservaDems in western Pennsylvania. Basically what I refer to as the bitter/clingers or victim conservatives.
As a Western PA native I can agree with that. Espically ConservaDems in Westmoreland and Csmbria County.

22, Male, Democrat, PA-18.

[ Parent ]
I agree that her endorsements are largely incoherent, but exceptions are the instances where...
...there's an early caucus or primary in 2012 and she wants to be with a winner, OR where there's a right-wing woman running.  Those are common themes she seems to follow.

She endorsed Branstad because she didn't want to piss off the likely next Governor of the 2012 leadoff state.  She endorsed Haley because she's a wingnut woman, but also if she lost it wasn't necessarily a big deal since it means Haley would have stayed a minor candidate not pissing off anyone, and Palin then still could endorse and advocate for the primary winner for November; as it goes, that was Palin's one big jackpot.  And Palin endorsed Ayotte as a wingnut woman who also is the likely next junior NH Senator.

But those common themes directly contradict the teabagging theme in many other instances, where Palin picks the teabagger.

Ultimately Palin herself IS a scatterbrain, so it makes perfect sense her endorsements would be scatterbrained.

43, male, Indian-American, Democrat, VA-10


[ Parent ]
One positive of top two primaries
is they do provide a clear counterpoint to any absurd post-primary insta-polls.

There's something wrong with SUSA's
polling this year. I can buy a close race, but there is no way Rossi is up by that much. They've had weird results in MN too.

SUSAs polls seem to consistently have weird results for the 18-34 sub-group. Do they call cell phones? Because the # of young people who don't have a home phone has increased dramatically in the past few years.


They do not call cell phones...
...unless you pay big time $$$ to do so (according to Markos).

That may be an excuse, but neither PPP or Rasmussen call cell phones, either, and their numbers aren't as crazy as this.


[ Parent ]
It's something that doesn't get mentioned
But yeah, a lot of 18-34 year olds (particularly at the lower end of that age spectrum) don't have a landline, which means they're probably going to be undercounted in the polls.  I wonder if there's any sort of political breakdown going on... maybe Republicans in their late 20s are more likely to have a landline than Democrats in a similar age bracket.

Still, the problem inherent to cell phones vis-a-vis landlines if you're polling a state-level race is that cell phones, unlike landlines, aren't necessarily connected to a particular location.  For example, if you randomly dial a landline with a (901) area code, you're going to talk to a person who lives in Memphis, TN, and if they're registered to vote, they're registered in Tennessee.  If you dial a cell phone with the same area code?  You might get a person who lives in Mississippi (and happened to purchase a cell phone in Tennessee.)  Or a person who's since moved to another state, but hasn't changed his cell phone number.  (This one happens a lot.)

26, white male, TX-24, liberal-leaning independent


[ Parent ]
I think SUSA has polled cells before
and found no real difference than with landlines.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
And that may have been true in the past
but it may have changed as the # of young people with only a cell phone has significantly increased over the past year.

[ Parent ]
Don't get me wrong
it strikes me as counterintuitive too. I'm 20 and whenever anyone asks for my number I give my cellphone number because I'm just never really home anymore (home as in where my parents live). That being said, if they found a certain result in 2008 or 2009, I have trouble believing it will be radically different in 2010. Probably slightly different at best.

21, dude, RI-01 (registered) IL-01 (college)
please help Japan. click "donate funds" in upper right and then "Japan Earthquake and Pacific Tsunami." http://www.redcross.org/


[ Parent ]
Option b)
Just throwing it out there, but while one option is that the number of Democratic votes shrink (which you and I agree is unlikely), the other option is that the number of votes for Rossi from Republicans and Independents grows. That option, especially Independents who might not feel compelled to vote in what is essentially a party primary, seems a lot more likely, and is also a reason why the primary may not be the most accurate "poll" in this race.

Independents maybe
But not Republicans after a semi-competitive primary. Shockingly it is looking increasingly like Rasmussen is more reliable than SurveyUSA this year. I never dreamt I would type those words.

[ Parent ]
Believe it man because it's happening, sad huh?
Plus were around 70 days until election day. Sooner or later Scotty Ras will tweak his numbers that they we more in sync with other pollsters like PPP and M-D. That's usually their MO.

22, Male, Democrat, PA-18.

[ Parent ]
I wouldn't be so quick
All I'm saying is that the most likely group of people who wouldn't come out to the polls in late August but would in November are 1) those who don't belong to either party, and 2) those who aren't regular voters. Right now, both of those groups favor Republicans.  

[ Parent ]
It is possible
But until I see another poll showing a similar result I'm not putting much stock in this. It was the outlier once before so probably is again.

[ Parent ]

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